Rear tail lights with both brake/indicator function

"coriolis" (coriolis) 09/06/2013 at 14:30 • Filed to: None

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I drive a Volt as a DD, and I really don't like the rear tail lights, heck any of the lights at the rear. This is also common for USDM(and Canada) vehicles. Also many GM and Chrysler cars have this, though not so much for Ford (with their global platform strategy I assume).

(First World) Problems I have:

1. Brake lights and indicator lights are the same.

2. Reverse is located at the bottom of the bumper, common feature for many GM cars lately. Might be useful for cars with reverse cameras but my car doesn't, and reversing in the Volt is a major pain in the butt. I'm also not finished, GM has a weird feature for ground illumination when you unlock the car (headlights, tail lights AND reverse light goes on when you unlock the car). Fantastic feature for screwing around with drivers in a full parking lot, especially at night when its most effective.

3. 3rd brake light and tail lights don't turn off at the same time. Maybe its just the Volt, but the brake lights turn off half a second before the 3rd brake light. Not sure why, all tail lights are LED.

Decay buys too many beaters > coriolis 09/06/2013 at 14:34

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I assume they are red as well? I never understood why everyone could not go with the simple white (or lets face it blueish nowadays) up front, red for in back and for braking, and yellow for turning. It lets other drivers know in an instant what is going on in front of them.

Slave2anMG > coriolis 09/06/2013 at 14:35

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Non-amber rear turn signals are just plain stupid...not to mention unsafe IMHO.

Yet Audi, Mercedes and even some VWs for the USDM have red turn signals in the rear...when they're selling the same cars in Yerp with amber. WTF?

MooseKnuckles > coriolis 09/06/2013 at 14:39

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I don't like how, for example on Dodge, the headlight turns off for the corresponding turn indicator. Audi does it too I believe, LED indicator goes on and headlight goes off.
I guess it makes it easier for oncoming cars to distinguish the signal with light from the low beam over powering.

nataku83 > coriolis 09/06/2013 at 14:39

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My wife absolutely hates the illuminating reverse lights when you unlock the car thing. She's pretty short, and walking down a row of full size trucks and SUVs (we're in Texas), you don't see the illuminated reverse lights until you're in danger of being runover.

Sn210 > coriolis 09/06/2013 at 14:40

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I get that. I've got a similar problem with red turn signals. I swapped out the tail lights on my '08 civic with the ones from the '09 model which have a clear lens and amber bulb. I think it's too hard to differentiate the brake light from the turn signal sometimes aside from, you know, the blinking and stuff. I really don't like Infiniti's tail lights where the indicator is a red ring of single LEDs around the brake light. Don't get me started on the LED DRL that shut off when the front turn signal goes on, I hate that!

Casper > coriolis 09/06/2013 at 14:40

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Sorry, I couldn't get past "I drive a Volt as a DD". I salute your candidness. The first step is admitting you have a problem.

deekster_caddy > coriolis 09/06/2013 at 14:40

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I don't think the taillights ARE LED though. Unless you swapped the bulbs out. Which is why the third brake light comes on (and off) so much quicker.

I agree the reverse light is weird/next to useless. It's okay for the backup camera, but just 'okay' definitely not good. I heard it's better if you swap the bulb with an ultrabright LED, I'm going to give that a try.

I believe the reverse light is located where it is for global acceptance - that location meets DOT and EU and AU codes all at once, or so I heard.

I'm not a big fan of the Volt's back end lights either, but the all red/single bulb doesn't bother me, most GM cars have been that way for a very long time. Very few GM cars have amber turns.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Slave2anMG 09/06/2013 at 14:42

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My Landy and Ranchero both have red signals, but I claim a "general oldness" exemption. Any vehicle >47yo doesn't need help making people observe its movements, usually.

coriolis > Casper 09/06/2013 at 14:48

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Company vehicle, Prius or Volt ;) Unfortunately any Tesla's were not an option.

My weekend car is a Focus ST if that redeems anything of what remains to be my manhood.

Casper > coriolis 09/06/2013 at 14:51

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Ah, well at least you are being paid to drive it ;) That's what it would take to make me drive one as well.

deekster_caddy > Casper 09/06/2013 at 15:06

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I bought one recently after a great deal of hemming and hawing about whether or not I should, and it's a lot better than you poke fun at. I understand that it's not for everybody, but neither is it so horrible that they shouldn't exist. It's pretty damn fun to drive, i.e. responsive and handles well, for a DD. Plus, it's extremely inexpensive to operate. You should spend some time driving one before you write it off as a 'no can do'.

Casper > deekster_caddy 09/06/2013 at 15:12

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I have. It was awful and impractical. Steering was terrible, inputs were laggy, suspension was poor (more to do with weight than actual geometry), the interior was just unpleasant compared to most new cars (the vents have scarred my dreams). In due course I have also driven most other hybrids/electrics I can get my hands on. I can definitively say it just doesn't pencil out. The sacrifices you have to make in order to try to do the mathematical acrobatics of justifying the purchase when compared to the features and performance losses are brutal.

I will say that the Tesla Model S gives me hope. I personally haven't done much driving in it, but several of the people I know have and say it's getting better and better... mostly software glitches that need to be worked out right now. Once that tech leaks it's way down to cheaper cars they will crawl out of the suck rather quickly.

deekster_caddy > Casper 09/06/2013 at 15:27

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Interesting. I find the interior (besides the vents) well laid out. Do you do mathematical acrobatics to justify a car purchase? So you only buy slightly used toyota corollas then? That's too bad. If you "do the math" as such, the Volt only costs a couple thousand more than a base Prius and drives like a much nicer car. I think plugins and EVs are going to stick around this time. The infrastructure and battery technology is good enough to stay, just missing 'fast charging'. But the Volt has a gas tank to make up for that shortcoming...

The Tesla Model S is definitely a hope-bringing car. The battery swapping is very cool, and 200 miles of range is probably enough for most people. It's also nice that Tesla actually gives software updates to customers without a big hassle!

I'm curious if the Volt you spent time with had some issues. I don't find mine laggy beyond the 'normal' lag of a drive by wire throttle, and I like the steering feel.

doodon2whls > MooseKnuckles 09/06/2013 at 15:35

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Bingo. When the DRL's are adjacent to the turn indicators, they dim (or turn off) the DRL to make the turn indicator more obvious.

DoubleClutchingAutomatic > coriolis 09/06/2013 at 16:03

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I was just thinking about this. I prefer amber turn signals because I think it's the more obvious turn signal than a brake/turn signal combo.

Pessimippopotamus > Casper 09/06/2013 at 16:24

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What's wrong with it? You can be excited by cars other than loud RWD manual driven monsters. Granted, it's a glorified science experiment, and the rest should be in line with ordinary GM cars, but it's not something to be ashamed of.

Casper > Pessimippopotamus 09/06/2013 at 16:48

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Let me put it to you this way. What does it do BETTER than the competition? Not just the hybrid/electrics, but all competing cars.

Pessimippopotamus > Casper 09/06/2013 at 16:53

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What else does the Volt compete in aside from hybrid/electrics?

Casper > deekster_caddy 09/06/2013 at 17:00

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I hated the center "console" area. It reminded me of a minivan. The materials were cheapy/chincy and the controls seemed like they come from a Buick. I liked the use of screens for gauges/display, but the animations were awful and the systems felt like they were all gimmick no substance. The vents are ugly beyond belief, and the weird over cap top portion of the dash makes no sense other than to make it extra hard to detail. All in all it reminded my of a weird blend of parts from minivans and Buicks about 13 years ago, but "stylized" to seem new.

Yes. I justify every purchase. That's why I typically only buy old cars if I am going to modify them, popular cars with market staying power if they are new or nearly new, and make the decision based on both the current performance and usefulness of the vehicle as well as it's financial implications 5 and 10 years down the road. Calculating all of the incurred expenses and probable issues.

The steering is extremely sloppy, which yes, is due to the drive by wire. It's also miserable trying to go in a straight line for a long distance. Slight inputs seem to be ignored and you have to make an exaggerated correction for a slight course drift. The throttle had a strange delay. If you just mash it while going down the road you can give it a brief count before it builds power, which makes no sense since it's electric and should be instant. I think the difference of opinion is that you consider there to be "normal" lag...

The big problem with the S is the buggy OS crashes. Once they get it under control it will be a good platform for other cars. The one I drove didn't have hardly any of the normal electric car draw backs. It was reasonably precise, the handling was decent, but it definitely felt heavy in corners. To be fair I drove it back to back with a Porsche so it may have been a little more abrupt moving to the Tesla.

Don't get me wrong, it stacks up alright against the Prius... I just think the Prius is a terrible car as well. I just don't understand sacrificing performance and quality for the sake of saying you have a hybrid (or electric) when it would take 15 years to really even the price out for most of them or having to have a second car for long trips.

Casper > Pessimippopotamus 09/06/2013 at 17:09

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It's a small sedanish economy car, so it would also be in there with all of it's gas and diesel counter parts. For instance, the volt only saves about $6000 to $7000 over 5 years of fuel on average, less for people who commute distances that cause it to enter gas usage at the average of 35 to 37 MPG. This is also compared to the average of new cars (which is averaging with lower MPG vehicles). Now, a diesel Jetta actually averages higher then EPA estimates, routinly in the 40+ MPG range. Comparing the two vehicles build quality, resale values, total cost of ownership, and general depreciation curve with the purchase price, the Volt makes less and less sense.

I would compare it to all the hybrids, electrics, diesels, and any gas car that has similar specs to what you are looking to get from the Volt.

Pessimippopotamus > Casper 09/06/2013 at 17:23

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I'm not questioning the Volt's being a disappointment (which I still consider a proof of concept rather than a proper mass consumption model, which GM is trying to push for). I'm questioning your demeanor.

Casper > Pessimippopotamus 09/06/2013 at 18:42

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What do you mean? The fact I made a joke at the expense of a poor quality car or because you have one?

Burrito de EJ25 > Casper 09/06/2013 at 20:01

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Take it to the front page, fellas!

deekster_caddy > Casper 09/06/2013 at 21:28

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I can certainly understand all your points, although I still disagree with the steering - mine is very responsive to input and tracks straight with no problem. What I consider 'normal' lag comes from driving my wife's my '05 Yukon XL which had a very slight lag, but was auto so not that big a deal, and my wife's '08 Passat Wagon 6 spd, the manual makes the slight lag a very big deal, but I've adjusted to it.

There is a slight delay as the Volt changes to accelerating from cruising, when the transmission controlling the input RPM decides to switch input motors (there are two - a large and small for efficiency or power, or a blend of the two), and there is a brief delay as it switches motors. Others have made the same complaint, I've gotten used to it but I am pretty sure that's what you are describing. It's not a single electric motor - there is a very complicated transmission in there along with several different clutch packs to control where the input is coming from (there is a gas engine too)

I get it on the expense justification as well. I plan on keeping it for at least 5 years and more if it remains reliable. So far I'm getting about 1000 miles per 8 gallon fill up plus my electricity bill actually didn't change at all, so the cost of driving it is even lower than I forecasted. I did all the math, figured out that the Volt would cost me the same as anything cheaper I might buy, and after a few test drives I was hooked.

(aside - My electric bill didn't go up? what? Here's the deal - I do use almost 300 kWh more per month since I started plugging in the Volt. It was an extra $25-$30/month for us. Then I found out about TOU billing - Time of Use. We had the electric company replace our meter with one that does timed billing. Instead of a flat rate for our electricity we pay more for electricity during "peak hours" which here is 12-7 PM. Electricity is cheaper the rest of the time, "off peak". I set the car to not charge before 7PM (changeable in a situation where I know I'll need a full charge earlier), plus adjusted a few things around the house (put a timer on our basement dehumidifier, run the A/C harder in the morning and turn it way down during peak hours, wait until we go to bed to start the dishwasher, etc) and now we use well over 80% of our electricity off-peak, so our bill is a few dollars LESS per month than it was before. Could we have made all of these changes before? Sure, but I wasn't even aware it was an option at home. Different regions have different electricity pricing and time plans of course - CA has much more expensive electric than where I live, but they also have EV charging infrastructure - you are more likely to find a free place to plug in in CA)

Casper > deekster_caddy 09/06/2013 at 22:14

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Everything about cars will be matter of opinion. We just have different cars to compare to. For instance, I complain about the problems with those types of cars as well... but I prefer cars that are small and light, I also prefer cars that are quick and with as few gadgets as possible. I generally don't like anything drive by wire, and normally hate anything with electric power steering (the exception so far is my wife's BRZ, can't tell it's electric).

See I did the math and to make something like the Volt that costs over $10,000 more than a really well equipped diesel Jetta or something would never be a better deal... and I would have a car I didn't like.